EPS 5 - Sobriety, Stigma & the True Cost of Recovery: A Conversation with Dalton & Dan

SPEAKER_00: 0:39

Welcome to the Pink Money Podcast. With your host, Jerry Williams. A podcast that's all about money from a gay perspective. Hey everybody, this is Jerry. Welcome to the Pink Money Podcast. And today we're It's kind of a little bit of a different show because I've actually got two guests with me today. I have Dalton and Dan. And what they're going to do is talk a little bit about their experience as it relates to the addiction that they've gone through with alcohol and the withdrawal from alcohol as well. And how they have managed to navigate their road to recovery and some of the pitfalls and how especially because, of course, this is a money show. We're going to talk a lot about, as much as we can, about how it has impacted them financially. I think some of you, I know I've been surprised about how much it actually costs to go into recovery. So with all that being said, let's go ahead and dig right in because there's probably a lot that they want to say and a lot that I want to question them about. So welcome, guys. How are you doing?

SPEAKER_02: 2:00

Good, thank you. Hey, hello.

SPEAKER_00: 2:03

So with all that being said, I want to know, you know, honestly, when you think about where you were, where you are now, and during that time, if you could put a dollar sign around that, what would you say is the amount you've either spent or, you know, you've come out of pocket for, let's say? you know, or an opportunity cost?

SPEAKER_02: 2:36

I think in my drinking career would be hundreds of thousands. I mean, I've been drinking since I was very, very young. So, you know, I could probably buy a house by now. But with my drinking career, what about you?

SPEAKER_01: 2:53

Yeah, I mean, I know since in recovery I have an app on my phone that tells me I roughly put in about how much I spent per week. And it calculates, since I've been sober, how much money I'm actually saving. And in calories, too. So it's kind of interesting. It shows you both of that. But, you know, just the short amount of time that I have underneath my belt... You know, I've saved quite a bit of money. So, I mean, that means I've spent a lot of money, too. Did they ask you

SPEAKER_00: 3:26

to download that app, or you just did it on your own?

SPEAKER_01: 3:30

It was just something I decided to do. It's just a counter, just so I didn't have to keep track, being lazy.

SPEAKER_00: 3:39

Oh, no, that's pretty cool. I mean, I had never heard of that being a tool that was available, so that's kind of cool. I mean, I know that when you went to an actual physical... recovery place it was rather expensive

SPEAKER_01: 3:53

yeah so um thankfully my insurance um covered it and uh otherwise it would have been around thirty thousand dollars out of pocket so um but it was a very intensive inpatient program so um thankfully not But$1,000 came out of my pocket to actually go there for 30 days.

SPEAKER_00: 4:18

But I'm sure that you... I mean, luckily you had insurance, like you said, but I'm sure that a lot of people don't have insurance.

SPEAKER_01: 4:26

Yeah, and it can cost anywhere from$200 a day just to even detox from it under doctor supervision, anything like that. So... It's kind of crazy that it costs so much money to get away from this disease or try to help curb the disease because being an alcoholic, it never goes away. It's no cure. It's chronic.

SPEAKER_00: 4:53

You know, to me, it seems like this is a big problem in the gay community. I see it a lot. Now, I'm sure it's widespread, but I notice it a lot in the gay community, especially... because all of our, a lot of our functions take place in bars. You know, we didn't have the luxury of having, you know, a bowling alley really to go to. We didn't have, you know, all the other PTAs and other outlets, social outlets like, you know, straight people do. So I think sometimes it's definitely been used as like a coping mechanism or again, it's just socially the place where you hang out. And then know in my experience with some of the, you know, my past friends who have passed on because of, you know, their addiction to it. And they've unfortunately taken their life. I think, I'm not going to say because of it, but I think it was definitely a contributor to it. But it just seems like it's a problem in the gay community. That's what I'm trying to say.

SPEAKER_02: 5:54

I think it's a lot to do with culture. I mean, when I was growing up and I came out at 18, I was the club kid is what it was called. So, you know, you're going out. That's what you did every night. You get ready, you get dressed up, you go and straight to the bar. You know, so it is definitely a cultural thing. I would have to say, had a huge impact on my alcoholism.

SPEAKER_00: 6:19

And, you know, now they have all these apps, you know, Grindr, et cetera. I wonder if it's still as prevalent as it used to be, or now is it more hard stuff, narcotics, et cetera?

SPEAKER_01: 6:31

Oh, no. Alcohol is the number one thing. It's so widely and easily accessible that, you know, You can go any corner store, pick up a beer. You have to know someone to get harder stuff. And you don't have to know anybody. You just need to know your bartender. And it's a vicious cycle. So I know it is very prevalent, but... When I was in rehab, the doctor told me that there's 15% of the population that are alcoholics and drug addicts, and there are 85% that are what we call normies. So they don't have the compulsion, the obsession, and the mental cravings that people with this disease have. So it can be kind of different when people just say, oh, why don't you just stop drinking? It's easier said than done. Because of the disease that we have.

SPEAKER_00: 7:37

So you call it a disease. And you know, when I think disease, I think, you know, polio or, you know, measles or something like that. Do you know where that term comes from disease and in relation to drinking? And I'm not sure if I'm using the right term drinking. Is that should I say? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 7:56

No, that's right. It's just, you know, it's been proven by doctors. They don't know where it stems from, but there's a book that we called Alcoholics Anonymous, and it's called The Big Book, and it basically tells you in there.

SPEAKER_02: 8:12

You have an allergy almost basically to it. Once you start that first drink, It just doesn't stop. Just like when you get hives, you don't just get one. Well, I mean, you can, but it does spread, and it's almost that mental compulsion with the alcohol. That's what they talk about with the allergy in the

SPEAKER_01: 8:33

book. but they do classify it as a disease, a chronic disease, because you can't ever be cured of it. The only way to stop it is to not consume and not put alcohol in your body, and then your body will not produce the cravings and the mental obsession. And also by practicing, you know, a lot of people have heard of Alcoholics Anonymous, the 12 Steps, and all of the other tools that were given, like Sober Friends. your sponsor, you know, other people like that. So you have a support system within recovery. So, you know, when you feel like you just can't take it anymore, you call a friend or, you know, pick up the phone and dial or hit a meeting. Thankfully, you know, only one good thing about COVID that I could say is that they started doing online meetings. So it made it a lot more accessible for you to be able to go to a meeting from the comfort of your own home via Zoom, you know. And other than that, I think sometimes people just didn't want to stop, couldn't stop. In my case, it was literally killing me. It's the slowest form of suicide, so.

SPEAKER_00: 9:49

And why is that?

SPEAKER_01: 9:51

Because you're basically drinking yourself to death. You're drinking so much that you're breaking down your liver. Your liver's not processing correctly. It could lead to pancreatitis. It could just immune system, high blood pressure. On and on and on. Yeah. So they say, you know, it's the slowest form.

SPEAKER_00: 10:12

But how do some people start, you know, young, and then you hear, well, I think of like old man, who are on the street, et cetera, and they end up with cirrhosis of the liver, I assume, and die from that. So why are they able to drink forever and they don't die?

SPEAKER_01: 10:34

I don't think so. Everyone's DNA is different. It has to play a role with your DNA.

SPEAKER_02: 10:42

which is always a good question because my mother was an alcoholic and she was drinking while i was you know being created but um you know i that's always a thought you know i'm pretty uh i can never say the word but uh predisposed thank you um uh to alcohol you know especially being an infant and being yeah so young

SPEAKER_01: 11:04

um It runs very rampant in my family as well. There's a lot of alcoholic and drug addicts in my family. My grandfather has passed away due to this disease. So, you know, I'm only... I'll be 31 this year, and they said I had a liver of someone who was 71 that had been drinking their whole life. And then some people that were old men, their livers were fine. Of a 20-year-old? Yeah. How is that

SPEAKER_00: 11:33

fair? You know, it's funny because my mother was one of five, and my grandmother was one of four. And so she had two sisters and her brother. And so my great uncle ends up going into the service, doesn't drink, comes out of the service an alcoholic. I'm not 100% sure how long he was in. But anyway, he came out as an alcoholic. And I've always asked my mom, I'm like, Grandma didn't drink. She drank just maybe a margarita every blue moon. And my great aunt didn't drink either. And so it's weird to me in the sense of listening to you guys, thinking, how does that one person... end up with it, you know, was it cultural, like you said, because he was in the service? Yeah. I don't know. Go ahead,

SPEAKER_01: 12:28

Dan. I was going to say that it is cultural a lot, but it's also, you don't know you're really an alcoholic or a drug addict until it's activated. Yeah. And, you know, it's when, you know, everyone who's had a couple of drinks, you know, feel good. Well, when you get to extreme alcoholism, you literally have to drink So you don't die. So your body doesn't go into delirium tremens. And so you're not shaking. So you could function. It gets to the point where you're not even getting drunk anymore. You're just drinking to live and living to drink. And it's a vicious, horrible cycle.

SPEAKER_02: 12:59

It's horrible. You know, my drink was, what, 13 years old? My very first drink. So, and then it started from there and then just snowballed.

SPEAKER_01: 13:07

Yeah, I mean, I used to go to the bar when I was 13, 14 years old in Italy and drink at that bar. So, I mean, I... literally the only one thing i say to people um you know i've been i went sober for 13 years and then i turned 14. oh lord have mercy and then just went on for there you

SPEAKER_00: 13:29

know because it's in when i hear your story what it reminded me of is a lot of times celebrities like drew barrymore i know that she was you know i don't know how old she was when she was in um Are you talking about ET? Yes, ET. Yes, thank you. And I know that, you know, being exposed to adults who have everything and pass it around to whoever, you know. Anyway, I guess what I'm saying is that's something seems like I always hear typically about celebrities is that they start very young. But what you're saying is. You're not a celebrity. It doesn't matter. Yeah. And it happened to you guys.

SPEAKER_01: 14:09

I mean, at first it was fun, you know. It was a great way to cut loose liquid courage. What's liquid courage at 13? I don't know. As I got older, I guess. That was when I was 13. It was more just being silly, having a couple shots. I mean, I wasn't binge drinking like I was at the end. But, you know, for... a good 10 years since I turned 21, I drink every day. Every day. I wouldn't get crazy drunk every single day, but I would more than likely have a drink every single day. At night, especially. Because I have insomnia, and I would drink myself to sleep, you know, rather than taking that. And also, I have mental... I'm bipolar, so... I was unmedicated for a while and I was using alcohol as a form of medication, not meditation, medication. So, which that seems to be an issue too in the community with mental health issues. People don't know what to do. They want to turn everything off. So they just turn to, you know, drinking and drugging. It's cheaper than a psychiatrist.

SPEAKER_00: 15:22

Yeah. Well, if you're already hiding your sexuality or you haven't, come to terms with your sexuality and you're out there and you're feeling bad about yourself a few drinks might make you feel a little bit better about yourself or at least putting your problems aside and saying hey I'm just gonna cut loose and forget about the fact that I'd rather be out there dancing with the guys instead of I'm here stuck in this straight bar with people trying to get me to fuck the girls you know

SPEAKER_01: 15:51

yeah absolutely yeah and you know It works for a while, and then it just stops working. And that's when your life becomes unmanageable. And more than likely, a lot of people in recovery It was a long time. Like, they don't just one day, like, drink a beer and then the next day be like, I'm an alcoholic. It's more like rock bottom.

SPEAKER_02: 16:16

Yeah. You get to rock bottom, it's either, you know, jail or, you know, something happened. Like for me, it was hospital. Or hospital or, you know, they get that your liver's going to give out. You know, they get the bad news, I think.

SPEAKER_00: 16:28

So somebody who's listening to this and says, am I an alcoholic? How do they know?

SPEAKER_02: 16:35

I would say the compulsion to drink. That's how you would know if you can't stop. If

SPEAKER_01: 16:42

all you want to do is drink and when you start, you can't stop. If you're drinking

SPEAKER_02: 16:49

at 11 a.m., you might

SPEAKER_01: 16:52

have a problem.

SPEAKER_00: 16:53

So if you come home every night and you're just cracking open a beer or two.

SPEAKER_02: 16:57

I mean, it's... That's a hard question.

SPEAKER_01: 16:59

It depends on the person because if you just crack open one or two beers, I wouldn't say you were an alcoholic because a true alcoholic would not just have two beers. They'd have two beers and maybe five shots. And then you get to that tolerance level where you are spending so much more money because you can't get drunk anymore. You can't get the same result. It's like the same thing with drugs. Your body starts building up tolerance, so you're having to put more... substance into your body, you know? I mean, anybody listening to this, I think maybe if they're in denial, they might not know, but most everyone that I've encountered, you just know when you're

SPEAKER_00: 17:44

an alcoholic. I remember my ex, when we were going through our breakup stage, and we were going through that awkward period of living together but splitting up, And there's just that, you know, let's get this over with. Unfortunately, it didn't just end and we could go a separate ways. It sort of got drug out. But anyway, I remember I was paying his American Express bill and I would look at the charges on it and I would know exactly what he was buying because it was detailed on his American Express. It would say a six pack and a bottle or, you know, whatever. Yeah, it was. So I knew exactly how much he was drinking. on a daily basis because it was right there in black and white. I remember he got so mad at me one time because he said, where's all my money? I said, it's in the liquor store. Here is your American Express bill. He was just so angry because you have to pay your American Express bill. They don't give you a grace period. You have to pay it. He was just angry. I'm like, Point that finger at yourself. It's not me. You did it to yourself.

SPEAKER_02: 18:54

I mean, was that like a daily thing he was doing?

SPEAKER_00: 18:56

It got to that point, yeah. And, you know, the breakup was rough, you know, and I kind of thought, well, maybe it's because of that. But how long does that last, you know? Do you just, I don't know, a week, two weeks, whatever, but... It was ongoing for quite a while because our breakup probably lasted that awkward period of three, four months. It was during that time that I got to see it because I was, again, paying the bills. That's how I knew how much was actually being spent. I just probably didn't pay attention before because he was paying it on his own. At least I thought he was paying it. I'm sure that happens to a lot of people where it's a surprise probably to... somebody you know their partner whomever that there's quite a bit of money that's going out the door

SPEAKER_01: 19:45

how much they're actually spending um yeah and then like a lot of people well i'm gonna speak for myself use i statements um when something a little cheaper because of how much i was consuming i was no longer buying you know 40 50 dollar bottles of liquor I was going 10, 20 maybe because it does the same shit. Bottom's health, baby. Yeah, it did the job and at that point I wasn't even enjoying it anymore. It was just an extension of my hand was a glass of whiskey or a beer bottle or, you know, it was a way of life and also I think hiding, you know, from my mental health and Just, you know, not, I don't know.

SPEAKER_02: 20:35

Like you said, your question is like one or two a day. Does that classify you as an alcoholic? I would have to say probably not. You know, people get off work, they want to just relax. That's their downtime. Or, you know, maybe it's a Saturday, but when you're going into that like six, seven, eight, nine, and not stopping, I would say then definitely a problem. But what about every day? That's still hurting your body as well. I

SPEAKER_01: 21:01

mean, yeah. Technically, they say if you drink

SPEAKER_02: 21:05

every day, you're an alcoholic. I think it was like three or four in a week. You're not classified as one. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 21:12

Would you say there's a difference between alcohol addiction and alcohol abuse, or is it one and the same?

SPEAKER_01: 21:19

Alcohol addiction and alcohol abuse. So, yes, they are a little different. So you're addicted to alcohol, but then you're abusing it, not correctly. Like, if the person that you said drinks one or two beers, they're not alcohol abuse. You know, they're also not addicted. So I think they, I don't know, they might run together. So it's a very interesting question. I kind of don't have the answer. I would say,

SPEAKER_02: 21:46

like, okay, you have the guy that goes out to the bar on a Saturday. and just gets completely hammered. Like binge drinking. Binge drinking, but has to work Monday. Let's say that's alcohol abuse. So alcohol addiction would be, okay, it's Friday, now it's Sunday, and I'm still drinking into Monday, into Tuesday. That would be the addiction aspect of things.

SPEAKER_00: 22:08

Did you ever see that movie, The Lost Weekend? It's like a movie from the 1950s with Ray Malone. I don't think so. So basically the premise of the movie is he's an alcoholic. And he goes on this bender, and he doesn't know what happened to him when he wakes up on Monday. The entire weekend is gone. So he has no idea, and he wakes up in this strange place with, you know, everything is different about himself, but he doesn't remember anything about it. It's

SPEAKER_02: 22:38

blackout.

SPEAKER_00: 22:40

How frightening. To me, how frightening that would be. That's

SPEAKER_01: 22:43

a daily occurrence. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 22:47

It used

SPEAKER_01: 22:47

to be a day. Well, I'm saying, yeah, it used to be a daily occurrence.

SPEAKER_02: 22:51

I mean, not being in control, I don't think for me. I couldn't, like the blackout phase, like that's just, I blacked out a couple times, but it's scary. Don't go down that road.

SPEAKER_00: 23:03

Well, and the people who get behind the wheel, I mean, don't even start there. No, no. That's just, you know.

SPEAKER_02: 23:10

Yeah, I mean, what happens if you kill someone, you know? family of four, whatever, whatever you want to put on it. You know, that's just, um, you know, especially, um, you know, people always have a DD. I don't know where that came from, but you always want to have a DD or an Uber where we live in the age of Uber. Thank God. Yeah. Literally click a button and that's it. Yeah. You know, now

SPEAKER_00: 23:33

I know you two met through, like you said, online AA. Yes. Yes. Because, you know, You don't live in the same state. But I was really surprised that, from my understanding, that there's meetings all day and all night, basically 24, and all across the world, and you're able to attend these. If you want, right? Any meeting you want. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 24:05

I mean, there's certain types of meetings that are called open meetings. So open meetings means anybody can actually go. Even someone who's not an alcoholic who is just, you know, trying to understand the disease that their spouse has. But there's Al-Anon, which is usually what they would be doing. But closed meetings means, like, just alcoholics. But most meetings are open. And, like... I have a really good friend from Australia that I met. I have a friend from England. So you meet all these different people from around the world, and it's cool. Because, I mean, the one common problem that we have is, you know, we're alcoholics.

SPEAKER_00: 24:48

Now, when you guys decided to go to an AAMI, did you specifically try to find an LGBT group, or you just tried AAMI? any meeting, and you found this one.

SPEAKER_02: 24:58

I started off in person. going to in-person right before Corona. In-person

SPEAKER_00: 25:06

LGBT?

SPEAKER_02: 25:07

No, it was definitely not LGBT. So I was in the heart of Jupiter, Florida. I eventually found the LGBT online and I feel more comfortable because I don't have to go into detail why, but especially when you're trying to share information You know, you don't know who's going to judge you or whatnot. It was a little uncomfortable, but, you know. But the LGBT one, it's much... It just has a different vibe. A completely different vibe.

SPEAKER_01: 25:42

You know, it's just kind of like... It's like being at the bar with your other friends, but you're not drinking. It's the social aspect of it, but the not drinking aspect. And when I started, I started in coronavirus trying to get sober for the first time and like the midst of it when it first began. And I just look for an LGBTQIA+. a plus meeting and um i hopped around to a couple of them some people were very judgmental in some of them and you know people are people so um the one that i go to now is uh you know we're all we've been friends for a year and a half two years now so you know we're always welcoming new people which is great but you know you you become like it's like a brotherhood you know Which is nice.

SPEAKER_00: 26:33

So are there some meetings that are for young people and some people, I mean, older meetings? You know, for older people and younger people, do they have them like that?

SPEAKER_02: 26:42

They have a wide variety.

SPEAKER_01: 26:45

Yeah. I mean, they have, like, meetings that are specifically for transgendered people. They have meetings that are specifically for, like, they have one, yeah, women. Like, they have men's meetings. Like, they have any type. So because sometimes people don't feel comfortable Comfortable, like when I was in rehab, they would split us twice a week into women's group and men's group. And when the men seemed to share without the women around it, it was a little bit more, I want to say like raw. Like they felt more comfortable, I think. It was the vibe, like, you know. Guys being good guys, you know, hanging out around. And I don't know how the women's ones went because I never went to one. Funny how that works. They wouldn't let me in.

SPEAKER_00: 27:36

But you also had a little bit of experience on the negative side when you went to rehab. Right? Because you didn't necessarily go to an LGBT or gay rehab.

SPEAKER_01: 27:48

Yes, I didn't. There were two people that were gay in the entire facility.

SPEAKER_00: 27:55

Out of?

SPEAKER_01: 27:56

I want to say over 100. I mean, that were out. There was a lesbian girl I became really good friends with and myself. And, you know, I got called faggot because I was wearing rainbow shoes and a purple romper. But, you know, that's who I am. And I almost left. But, you know, I stuck it out. And I ended up becoming, like, really well-liked. And I even got on. This is kind of crazy. I don't want to say well. Like, they have a board of trustees. like president, vice president, and I made it onto there as the secretary. So it's like secretary of rehab. That's like, you know, one of those participation trophies, right? But

SPEAKER_00: 28:40

you had to stand up for yourself and put your foot down and you had to kind of assert yourself.

SPEAKER_01: 28:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 28:45

You know, it didn't, you just didn't walk in there and feel like, all welcomed and arms around you no i did not not at all and i could see maybe somebody being hesitant to go into a program when they are like i gotta put myself out there with a bunch of jackasses and what do i have in common with this you know 60 year old man who's all homophobic and what am i gonna do sit next to him and You know, we're going to braid each other hair. Yeah,

SPEAKER_01: 29:14

what the hell? It just also makes it hard when you're trying to focus on recovering and you can't help but think about what everyone else is saying around you. It's kind of negating the fact that you're even being there because you can't focus on what you're intended to be there for because you always hear little, hey, mister's over here, you know, like snickering. I mean, if you're... Someone, I mean, growing up, I got bullied, teased for being a sissy, you know, whatever, so it's like I know when it's happening. It's triggering. Yeah, very much so, and it makes me, like, I would go to my room and cry sometimes, like, and it sucked, but, you know, I stuck through it, and I made it out alive.

SPEAKER_00: 30:04

Yeah, and I'm sure that you being you also taught, some of those people you know how to respect gay people more

SPEAKER_01: 30:12

oh yeah like we had um i had a we call it a process group which is just basically a smaller group um with about six to eight guys in there and um some of them have never even met a gay person um as i was leaving when you leave they pass around this coin and they say nice things about you And some of the stuff that they did made me cry, but this time in a good way because it was just so heartfelt and I just felt so accepted at the end. So, you know, it just goes to show that, you know, sometimes you can't judge a book by the cover, you know, but at the same time, everyone just needs to be open to everyone's feelings no matter what because being gay or not, at the end of the day, we were there for the same thing because we were... Drug and alcohol abusers.

SPEAKER_00: 31:06

So what advice would you have to somebody who's listening, questioning themselves, wondering again, you know, am I on a slippery slope here? You know, are things heading south for me? Or, you know, what would you do to help somebody like that? You want to take this one? You can. I'll time it now. Okay, cool.

SPEAKER_01: 31:30

Well, first of all, if they're wondering, I would say try to get to a meeting.

SPEAKER_00: 31:35

How would they do that?

SPEAKER_01: 31:36

So there is this app called the Meeting Guide, which you can go on, and it tells you you put in your city. It's in the App Store for Android and iPhone. And you put in your city or your zip code, and it tells you all the meetings that are around. um, you there in person and or zoom. And so you can find that, um, way I found the one I go to is I Googled gay AA meetings, you know, uh, and you know, or you can just look up a.org and there's a lot of resources. If you just type in alcoholics anonymous, you can definitely find one. Like if you try, you know, um, so I would say maybe check out a meeting if they really think that they have a problem. If they like it, you know, if things click, then great. If not, then we'll be waiting for you when you come

SPEAKER_02: 32:32

back. I think a little left field. I talked to my primary doctor because he had a list of the alcohol assessment, and I wasn't really sure at that time. pretty young but I filled all that out and she comes back boo you've got a problem you know and so this is the this is what you need to start doing and then what Dalton said go to a meeting I mean at first I would reach out and find out you know

SPEAKER_00: 33:03

but what about if you're in a relationship and your spouse is not necessarily supportive of where you are or things are heading south because of where you're

SPEAKER_02: 33:11

at I have personally been a victim of that trying to go the other way. Um, and it was pretty rough. It was a rough, the whole thing was a rough situation ended badly because alcohol was obviously involved. Um, and, uh, it just, you know, if, if somebody is out there trying to, you know, better themselves and your partners bringing you down, it just, it's, it's sometimes you just got to cut ties and Say goodbye, like I did.

SPEAKER_00: 33:43

Well, you know, I was thinking about a friend of mine who he and his husband at the time were just animalistic, really, when they drank. They just got very abusive with each other. Cops were called multiple times. And I just think that it was just a horrible situation. You know, I don't know what really... other than, you know, what he could have done other than just, like you said, cut ties with it, but they're married and they were, what do you call it? Codependent. Codependent. Yeah, they just brought out the worst in each other. They brought out the best in each other when they weren't drinking, but when they were. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 34:20

But that was mine. That was my relationship with, you know, and when I was trying to better myself, it was almost like, you know, I don't know if anybody out there needs to hear it, but my husband was like, I really miss my drunk, fun husband. And I'm really trying to like better myself and not, you know, um, and it's just the, the, uh, narcissistic aspect of things were crazy. But, um, you know, I, like you said, cut ties. You have to, we were 10 years together and I just finally for a guy and he more crazy, you know, you just have to hear that. No, it's, it was, I'm better now. You know, Not like

SPEAKER_00: 35:05

I was. Congrats to both of you guys.

SPEAKER_01: 35:30

Thank you for having me. Thanks. And I just wanted to say, anybody listening who's struggling, you know, it does get better. Your worst day sober is going to be your best day. It's going to be better than your best day drunk. So, you know, and... you are kind and beautiful

SPEAKER_00: 35:51

and you're loved so there is a link on the website on pinkbunnyonline.com so if you'd like to send a message to either Dan or Dalton or both and maybe have a question or maybe you want to ask them to reach out to you I don't know if you guys would be willing to do that absolutely contact somebody who's maybe unsure about where they're at absolutely a guide yeah Okay, that would be awesome. For sure.

SPEAKER_02: 36:20

I'll pray for them. I'll guide them. No,

SPEAKER_01: 36:22

I'm just kidding.

SPEAKER_00: 36:24

Well, any last parting thoughts?

SPEAKER_01: 36:27

No, just thank you so much for having us, Jerry. Yeah, thank you so much, Jerry.

SPEAKER_00: 36:30

You're welcome. All right, guys, that's about it. Thanks for listening, and we will see you next time on the Pink Money Podcast.